Ukraine. Ukraine. Ukraine.
- Thread starter Llcoolw
- Start date
Polds4OSU
Marshall
Breaking news: The White House is pressuring Ukraine to sign on to its new peace proposal by Thanksgiving or lose U.S. support to the country, according to officials familiar with the talks. https://wapo.st/3K9bQYD
Zelensky just needs to call Trump and kiss his butt a bit. The next day he will declare Putin an international terrorist.
Ok, Europe, it is time to step up and show that Trump's America is nothing but a Russian lapdog and show that Europe can the beacon of freedom and protecting international law and sovereignty that the US was before we capitulated to this conman.
Polds4OSU
Marshall
Stunning development: Senators now confirm the Trump admin’s 28-point “peace plan” for Ukraine wasn’t a U.S. plan at all. It was a Russian wish list.
Per PBS’s Nick Schifrin, it was delivered to Trump envoy Steve Witkoff by someone representing Russia. Trump and the administration pushed it. They pressured Zelenskyy to accept the terms. Allies condemned it.
Now, Rubio is denying it had anything to do with the U.S.
This is a major foreign policy scandal.
www.threads.com
Per PBS’s Nick Schifrin, it was delivered to Trump envoy Steve Witkoff by someone representing Russia. Trump and the administration pushed it. They pressured Zelenskyy to accept the terms. Allies condemned it.
Now, Rubio is denying it had anything to do with the U.S.
This is a major foreign policy scandal.
MeidasTouch (@meidastouch) on Threads
Stunning development: Senators now confirm the Trump admin’s 28-point “peace plan” for Ukraine wasn’t a U.S. plan at all. It was a Russian wish list. Per PBS’s Nick Schifrin, it was delivered to Trump envoy Steve Witkoff by someone representing Russia. Trump and the administration pushed it...
www.threads.com
Polds4OSU
Marshall
Trump Envoy Busted Plotting With Russia to Sabotage Ukraine
www.thedailybeast.com
Trump Envoy Busted Plotting With Russia to Sabotage Ukraine
A jaw-dropping leak reveals Steve Witkoff coaching the Kremlin.
The war isn't going to stop because Ukraine wants everything including Crimea back and they aren't going to get it. They want in NATO while occupied, which would mean we've declared war on Russia; which would be idiotic.
The US and Europe's sanctions didn't work on Russia's economy. They've done well with India and China.
Russia is mostly sending criminals to fight in the front line Ukraine fresh from jail; so it's not like the public really cares or has a lot of sympathy for the soldiers. It's a different culture than the US. The Russian force is all well paid mercs and ex-cons. It's not in the public's crosshairs.
I think Ukraine is going to have to give up the Dunbas and Crimea and regroup and let Russia have this win.
The US and Europe's sanctions didn't work on Russia's economy. They've done well with India and China.
Russia is mostly sending criminals to fight in the front line Ukraine fresh from jail; so it's not like the public really cares or has a lot of sympathy for the soldiers. It's a different culture than the US. The Russian force is all well paid mercs and ex-cons. It's not in the public's crosshairs.
I think Ukraine is going to have to give up the Dunbas and Crimea and regroup and let Russia have this win.
“Regroup” really means surrender. Ukrainians know that accepting Russia’s terms would eventually cost them their entire country.
Criminals have families too and when things get more desperate, suddenly "criminal" can mean something like public drunk. Look at all the "criminals" our immigration crackdown is rounding up. You think their families don't care?
Ukraine’s position is this bad only because their allies have given inconsistent, often incompetent support. When Ukraine halted the initial assault and Russia got bogged down, we had a perfect chance to draw a firm line and stop Russia’s decades-long pattern of aggression. Instead, we adopted this strange instinct to tiptoe around Moscow, and now that weakness is shaping the outcome. It’s naïve to think Russia will stop if rewarded with its own peace deal. History is full of examples — aggression doesn’t stop when appeased.
Hitler wouldn’t have stopped at Poland if we’d accepted his “peace plan.” Saddam wouldn’t have stopped at Kuwait if we’d simply let him keep it.
We spend more on our military than anyone in the world, only to act timid in the face of Putin. If we’re going to behave like that, we might as well spend that money on something useful instead of maintaining an unused War Department.
............
Much of Russia’s strategy is based on a bet that its authoritarian system, which stifles dissent, can outlast messy democracies in the West, where populist politicians are already playing on voter fatigue over support for Ukraine.
Critics of Trump’s peace plan say that if it were accepted in its current form, it could leave open opportunities for Russia to justify a resumption of the war down the line. Ukraine has pointed to previous agreements broken by Moscow as reasons to be wary of its intentions.
“Putin is banking on a resumption of military hostilities,” said Abbas Gallyamov, a former Putin speechwriter who is now a Kremlin critic living abroad. “And with this agreement, Ukraine will emerge defenseless against him.”
Moscow, for example, is likely to back multiple pro-Russian candidates in a Ukrainian election organized under the terms of a peace agreement. Kyiv would be obliged to respond to any violations of electoral laws by such candidates and bar them from participating. Putin could then claim that the requirement for an open vote wasn’t met and use that as a reason to resume the invasion.
I don't think it's right. Russia looks at Ukraine like Ike Turner looked at Tina.
Russia does a whole state media thing and the people are kind of used to being treated like crap, so they're numb about it
(kind of like this country and healtcare costs)
I think Ukraine is in a crappy situation, I also don't want to spend US dollars and US soldiers into Russia - Ukraine Baby mama drama
Russia is gonna Russia and I don't want to go to war with them.
They’re not gonna stop just because they are given Ukraine.
The goal is absolutely reunification of the Iron Curtain era USSR.
Giving them Ukraine will only embolden them.
The issue is giving in now doesn’t preclude us from war with Russia. It may simply delay it. Also, not giving in doesn’t guarantee war either. This isn’t a binary decision.
You’re right they want to, but can’t.
They aren’t going up against the West. We’re just waiting Putin out.
Considering since 1991 they’ve only reclaimed a few 100 square miles in Georgia and Ukraine- I don’t see Russia as a legitimate threat.
They can barely keep the lights on in that country
They do suck; but they’re still bitch made.
You lost me. I can't put this together.
When did US policy become to spend billions helping a country stave off an aggressive dictatorship for four years then go, "Bummer, they are using prisoners. While they aren't a legitimate threat and are barely are keeping themselves afloat, this seems like a good time to give up. Let them have a ton of land and some weak security arrangements. That way we snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and the paper tiger feels victorious and ready to attack again later."
Last edited:
Then why sacrifice Ukraine sovereignty to a bitch made country? For shits and grins?
And were never sending troops into Russia.
We’re in a Cold War again with Russia. Like it or not.
First Ukraine. Then Moldovia. Then Romania. Then Poland. Then…..???.
Where’s your line?
You’re not making much sense.
Trump to hand Putin Ukraine’s occupied territories
US president sends envoys to Moscow with peace plan that recognises Russia’s war gains
The United States is poised to recognise Russia’s control over Crimea and other occupied Ukrainian territories to secure a deal to end the war.
The Telegraph understands that Donald Trump has sent his peace envoy Steve Witkoff and son-in-law Jared Kushner to make the direct offer to Vladimir Putin in Moscow.
The plan to recognise territory, which breaks US diplomatic convention, is likely to go ahead despite concerns among Ukraine’s European allies.
One well-placed source said: “It’s increasingly clear the Americans don’t care about the European position. They say the Europeans can do whatever they want.”
Russia’s president on Thursday said Washington’s legal recognition of Crimea and the Donetsk and Luhansk regions as Russian territory would be one of the key issues in negotiations over the US president’s peace plan.
The Kremlin on Friday said it had received a revised strategy for ending the war drawn up after emergency talks between Ukrainian and American officials in Geneva, Switzerland, last weekend.
An initial 28-point peace plan, formulated by Mr Witkoff after discussions with Russian officials, offered America’s “de facto” recognition of Crimea and the two eastern Donbas regions.
The strategy also proposed “de facto” recognition of Russian-held land behind the line of contact in Ukraine’s Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions after any ceasefire agreement.
Was it though?
Comrade Witkoffslosky?
Sunk Cost fallacy.
Similar threads
