Should there be billionaires?

[CowboyJD]

I'm not saying there isn't room for tax reform. I'm saing the tax the billionaires logic is simplistic, lazy, and doesn't begin to address the cause of the problem. In your equation Y is so warped there is not enough X to go around. Fix Y.......hell at least read what Y is before you vote on it then ask for more for real services not just throw it away. The B folks we are talking about have a combined wealth of 8T. How much of that do you want cause all of it doesn't put a lasting dent in the problem. We have the money for your copay now.......it goes to 20 year wars we started with lies as justification or $30B two mile small railway systems for one airport. The border has been a divisive topic for decades now......you and I debated it during Biden to which you pointed to his border control bill 88% of the over 100B bill went to Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan for defense purposes. That's not a border bill it's a military spending bill. If a bill that said......here is the plan, here is why it will work, the money will be spent in these places over this much time, and it cost 20B, we are going to raise said funds with this new/increased tax and it will be used for nothing else. then the taxes expire...... then lets talk. You know how you budget things......want a vacation this summer, car crap the bed you don't eat out as much till it's paid off......thinking of getting married and need a ring pick up some extra shifts. It's how it works. What we do is print more money making the problem worse and devaluing the currency for all. (I'm not trying to derail the thread with the border it's just an example I'm sure all of us a similar one from each side of the aisle as that is more the rule than the exception)

.Our tax system isn't perfect there are massive reforms that could make it more efficient and equitable.......but it does not matter one bit how much you take from the rich if you don't stop spending at the rates we are. All this take 5% from the billionaires and we will solve homelessness and have healthcare for all is just more lies from the people who got us in this spot. It will just be more waste and the next demo to be demonized will be millionaires. Saying "tax the rich" as a fix to the problem is no differnt than looking at a fire and saying it needs more gas our govenrment spends more than it takes in AND can responsibly print from essentially thin air.

Why aren’t you advocating for “tax the billionaire” AND “reduce spending” instead of setting up your false dichotomy of it being one or the other?

 

[steross]

I'm not saying there isn't room for tax reform. I'm saing the tax the billionaires logic is simplistic, lazy, and doesn't begin to address the cause of the problem. In your equation Y is so warped there is not enough X to go around. Fix Y.......hell at least read what Y is before you vote on it then ask for more for real services not just throw it away. The B folks we are talking about have a combined wealth of 8T. How much of that do you want cause all of it doesn't put a lasting dent in the problem. We have the money for your copay now.......it goes to 20 year wars we started with lies as justification or $30B two mile small railway systems for one airport. The border has been a divisive topic for decades now......you and I debated it during Biden to which you pointed to his border control bill 88% of the over 100B bill went to Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan for defense purposes. That's not a border bill it's a military spending bill. If a bill that said......here is the plan, here is why it will work, the money will be spent in these places over this much time, and it cost 20B, we are going to raise said funds with this new/increased tax and it will be used for nothing else. then the taxes expire...... then lets talk. You know how you budget things......want a vacation this summer, car crap the bed you don't eat out as much till it's paid off......thinking of getting married and need a ring pick up some extra shifts. It's how it works. What we do is print more money making the problem worse and devaluing the currency for all. (I'm not trying to derail the thread with the border it's just an example I'm sure all of us a similar one from each side of the aisle as that is more the rule than the exception)

.Our tax system isn't perfect there are massive reforms that could make it more efficient and equitable.......but it does not matter one bit how much you take from the rich if you don't stop spending at the rates we are. All this take 5% from the billionaires and we will solve homelessness and have healthcare for all is just more lies from the people who got us in this spot. It will just be more waste and the next demo to be demonized will be millionaires. Saying "tax the rich" as a fix to the problem is no differnt than looking at a fire and saying it needs more gas our govenrment spends more than it takes in AND can responsibly print from essentially thin air.

Simplistic and lazy is not understanding the difference between revenue policy and spending.

The idea that because spending is bad we cannot discuss any change in revenue policy is illogical. Human beings have the capacity to contemplate on two different ideas. Our spending is bad. The idea that it is so bad that revenue policy has no meaning is simply false.

 

[GratefulPoke]

This feels pertinent:

 

[Donnyboy]

Simplistic and lazy is not understanding the difference between revenue policy and spending.

The idea that because spending is bad we cannot discuss any change in revenue policy is illogical. Human beings have the capacity to contemplate on two different ideas. Our spending is bad. The idea that it is so bad that revenue policy has no meaning is simply false.

I said we need revenue changes. I agree with you on that. To blindly say insert societal issue can be fixed if billionaires pay their fare share is just a tagline. If you put the wealth tax CA is proposing on the nation and took 5% of worth you don’t cover interest on the debt and it’s going up at a clip of 1.7-1.8T a year no matter which party is in charge.

Total wealth of US billionaires 8.1T. Deficit 37+T. Combined worth doesn’t cover the interest. We over spend at a pace that erases gains made by taking it all in roughly the term of one president.

Taxation needs reform there are better more equitable ways to tax us most people agree on that and there multiple ways to do better. Spending is out of control at frightening pace and neither party seem interested slowing down. The reps can want reform that lower taxes they say will boost the economy and put more money in….dems say raise taxes we will fix these problems. Both of those things can be true. If we don’t drastically cut spending neither side can be right.

 

[Donnyboy]

Why aren’t you advocating for “tax the billionaire” AND “reduce spending” instead of setting up your false dichotomy of it being one or the other?

I’ve said we need tax reform. Repeatedly.

The house is on fire. Let’s not borrow money to buy new windows till we put it out.

The things we need are failing but there is an endless supply of money for everything else. We may disagree on how to fix schools we all agree they should be properly funded to achieve those goals. We all agree we need highest quality infrastructure. We all would like some form of quality healthcare for all. None of those things are why we are 37T in debt and spending 1.7-1.8 over revenue every year. I’m not against those who have more paying more. I’m against the govt getting another dollar till they prove they can manage it at any semblance of competence. And they aren’t close now regardless the party in charge.

 

[Stillwaterman]

Mandatory military service doesn't fly here. And honestly, we just don't need droves of people to be effective there anymore. My suggestion would be to shorten high school (Senior years are a glorified photo shoot anyway), and add in mandatory trade school. Not Stem classes, but real trade school.

 

[CowboyJD]

I’ve said we need tax reform. Repeatedly.

The house is on fire. Let’s not borrow money to buy new windows till we put it out.

The things we need are failing but there is an endless supply of money for everything else. We may disagree on how to fix schools we all agree they should be properly funded to achieve those goals. We all agree we need highest quality infrastructure. We all would like some form of quality healthcare for all. None of those things are why we are 37T in debt and spending 1.7-1.8 over revenue every year. I’m not against those who have more paying more. I’m against the govt getting another dollar till they prove they can manage it at any semblance of competence. And they aren’t close now regardless the party in charge.

So no tax reform until austerity measures are put in place and proven to be effective by your measurement.

Got it.