ICE

Since you asked in a civil matter without the typical personal attacks. (Much appreciated BTW). Here is my take on the situation.


If you lean left, if you care deeply about civil rights, human dignity, abuse of power, and protecting vulnerable people, these questions are for you too. They are not an attack on compassion or empathy, and they are not a demand that you abandon your values. They are an invitation to slow the moment down and ask whether the way we act in the street actually aligns with the outcomes we say we want. Caring about people and thinking critically are not opposites. Wanting safer communities, fair laws, and humane treatment does not require chaos, escalation, or putting lives at risk. If the goal is justice, accountability, and fewer people harmed, then common sense, restraint, and clear thinking belong in the conversation just as much as passion does.

If I am protesting the arrest of people with criminal histories, do I fully understand what those histories are? Do I know the difference between a civil immigration violation and a violent or repeat criminal offense? Am I reacting to a headline, or to verified facts about the individual cases involved? Would I be willing to personally take responsibility for one of the people being arrested? Would I adopt one of these individuals into my home if the alternative were detention or deportation? Would I be willing to be legally responsible for their actions while their case is pending? Would I provide food, shelter, transportation, and daily supervision? Would I transport them back and forth to court dates or immigration hearings? Would I guarantee they appear in court if released into my care, and if they failed to appear, would I accept legal consequences for that failure? Would I allow them to sleep under my roof with my children in the house? Would I feel comfortable leaving them alone in my home? Would I trust them around my spouse, my kids, my neighbors, or my pets? Would I install locks, cameras, or safeguards, and if so, why would those be necessary? Would I accept financial liability if they caused harm or property damage? Would I still defend my position publicly if the person I sponsored reoffended? If I would not take one person into my own home, why do I expect society to absorb unlimited risk? Is compassion meaningful if it never requires personal sacrifice? Is it moral to demand outcomes I would not personally participate in?

What business is this of mine, right now, in this moment? Am I directly involved in what is happening, or am I inserting myself into something that does not concern me legally or practically? What do I believe will actually change because I am standing here today? Am I confusing feeling strongly with thinking clearly? If I walk away right now, does anything meaningful get worse, or do I just lose the feeling of being involved? What is my specific goal here? Is my goal emotional release, public visibility, moral signaling, or an actual policy outcome? Can I clearly explain what law I want changed and how that change would realistically occur? Do laws change because of street interference, or because of legislation, courts, elections, and sustained pressure? If my actions today succeed perfectly, what does success actually look like tomorrow morning? Am I assuming everyone else will stay calm while I act impulsively? Am I relying on someone else’s restraint to protect me from the consequences of my own choices? Do loud noises, crowds, and adrenaline usually improve judgment, or do they make mistakes more likely? If something goes wrong, am I prepared to accept responsibility for my role in it?

Why am I standing this close to armed professionals performing a job I do not control? Do I believe proximity increases my moral authority, or does it just increase risk? If a vehicle moves unexpectedly, if someone panics, if someone stumbles, what happens next? Is this moment worth someone getting hurt? Is it worth me getting hurt? What am I hoping the officers will do differently because I am here? Do I believe yelling, blocking, or interfering causes better outcomes, or just faster escalation? If I believe enforcement is wrong, am I creating evidence and records, or am I creating chaos, and which one actually helps courts, oversight, and accountability? If I care about people being arrested, have I supported legal aid, court navigation, or lawful advocacy? Have I spent time understanding the legal process I am trying to disrupt, or am I performing concern in public?

If I were writing the law myself, what would it actually say? How would it handle violent offenders, repeat offenders, and due process? What resources would it require, where would that money come from, and what unintended consequences would it create? Do I believe laws stop applying when enough people disagree with them, and if that were true, which laws would still exist tomorrow? Would I want that standard applied to issues I care about less? Have I ever called 911? Do I expect law enforcement to exist when I need help, and if so, how do I reconcile that with believing all enforcement is illegitimate? If I am not a citizen, do I believe street chaos improves my legal outcome, or would calm legal counsel and verified support help more than confrontation?

Am I here to save lives, or to feel righteous? If someone is injured today, will I still believe this was worth it? If nothing changes at all, will I admit this accomplished nothing? Am I thinking, or am I reacting? Am I acting out of principle, or out of anger? If I walk away, does that make me weak, or does it make me rational? What happens after today, after the crowd leaves, after the cameras are gone? What does my future look like if this escalates instead of resolves? Is common sense cowardice, or is it how people go home alive?

These questions are not meant to shame, silence, or score points. They exist to interrupt reflex and replace it with thought. Before stepping into the street, before escalating a moment that cannot be taken back, before assuming righteousness guarantees safety, it is worth sitting with these questions honestly. Not to prove anything to others, but to be clear with ourselves. Lives are not improved by confusion, noise, or impulse. They are improved by clarity, responsibility, and choices that reduce harm rather than multiply it. If thinking carefully keeps even one person from getting hurt, then asking the questions matters.

I don't believe it was necessary to have shot and killed Alex Pretti. I also don't believe it was necessary for him to show up as an armed protestor. I also wasn't at the scene and don't know the exact circumstances that led to his death. Neither was anyone else on this message board.
We were taught by God, our Church , our pastors and our parents that what is going on today is NOT Christian, the current climate BY ICE against Immigrants (many Christians) are a THREAT TO THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION

We are taught to stand up for and be the voice of the oppressed and ESPECIALLY be the shield and sword of other Christians if a Govt is attacking them in the streets


We are CALLED to this by God's own word . By the Christian faith and if you don't understand that then you are of this World and NOT God's Kingdom



Key Bible Verses About Immigrants:
Leviticus 19:33-34: "When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God."


Deuteronomy 10:19: "And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt."


Deuteronomy 24:14: "Do not take advantage of a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether that worker is a fellow Israelite or a foreigner residing in one of your towns."

Zechariah 7:10: "Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless, the foreigner or the poor. Do not plot evil against each other."

Ezekiel 47:22: "Allot inheritance to sojourners as native-born children of Israel."

Exodus 12:49: "The same law applies both to the native-born and to the foreigner residing among you."
 
If I am protesting the arrest of people with criminal histories, do I fully understand what those histories are? Do I know the difference between a civil immigration violation and a violent or repeat criminal offense?

Can you give a single example of someone protesting for or even saying online that they are advocating that someone with violent or repeat criminal offenses should be left alone?

To my knowledge, except possibly the extreme fringe anarchist, that does not exist. It is certainly no more common than the MAGA racist that wants all minorities deported or killed. And, we have all seen how you react when anyone here even implies that you are on that side.
 
Republicans are going to get wiped out in the midterms if this continues. You can feel some of them starting to squirm.

Everyone - PLEASE write to your rep and senators. State and Federal. Let them know not only where your vote is going, let them know where your money is going. If you want a course change, the pressure is going to have to come from the bottom up.
There is 9 months until the election. This is going to get much worse. We easily could be in a full blown civil war by then.
 
Since you asked in a civil manner without the typical personal attacks. (Much appreciated BTW). Here is my take on the situation.


If you lean left, if you care deeply about civil rights, human dignity, abuse of power, and protecting vulnerable people, these questions are for you too. They are not an attack on compassion or empathy, and they are not a demand that you abandon your values. They are an invitation to slow the moment down and ask whether the way we act in the street actually aligns with the outcomes we say we want. Caring about people and thinking critically are not opposites. Wanting safer communities, fair laws, and humane treatment does not require chaos, escalation, or putting lives at risk. If the goal is justice, accountability, and fewer people harmed, then common sense, restraint, and clear thinking belong in the conversation just as much as passion does.

If I am protesting the arrest of people with criminal histories, do I fully understand what those histories are? Do I know the difference between a civil immigration violation and a violent or repeat criminal offense? Am I reacting to a headline, or to verified facts about the individual cases involved? Would I be willing to personally take responsibility for one of the people being arrested? Would I adopt one of these individuals into my home if the alternative were detention or deportation? Would I be willing to be legally responsible for their actions while their case is pending? Would I provide food, shelter, transportation, and daily supervision? Would I transport them back and forth to court dates or immigration hearings? Would I guarantee they appear in court if released into my care, and if they failed to appear, would I accept legal consequences for that failure? Would I allow them to sleep under my roof with my children in the house? Would I feel comfortable leaving them alone in my home? Would I trust them around my spouse, my kids, my neighbors, or my pets? Would I install locks, cameras, or safeguards, and if so, why would those be necessary? Would I accept financial liability if they caused harm or property damage? Would I still defend my position publicly if the person I sponsored reoffended? If I would not take one person into my own home, why do I expect society to absorb unlimited risk? Is compassion meaningful if it never requires personal sacrifice? Is it moral to demand outcomes I would not personally participate in?

What business is this of mine, right now, in this moment? Am I directly involved in what is happening, or am I inserting myself into something that does not concern me legally or practically? What do I believe will actually change because I am standing here today? Am I confusing feeling strongly with thinking clearly? If I walk away right now, does anything meaningful get worse, or do I just lose the feeling of being involved? What is my specific goal here? Is my goal emotional release, public visibility, moral signaling, or an actual policy outcome? Can I clearly explain what law I want changed and how that change would realistically occur? Do laws change because of street interference, or because of legislation, courts, elections, and sustained pressure? If my actions today succeed perfectly, what does success actually look like tomorrow morning? Am I assuming everyone else will stay calm while I act impulsively? Am I relying on someone else’s restraint to protect me from the consequences of my own choices? Do loud noises, crowds, and adrenaline usually improve judgment, or do they make mistakes more likely? If something goes wrong, am I prepared to accept responsibility for my role in it?

Why am I standing this close to armed professionals performing a job I do not control? Do I believe proximity increases my moral authority, or does it just increase risk? If a vehicle moves unexpectedly, if someone panics, if someone stumbles, what happens next? Is this moment worth someone getting hurt? Is it worth me getting hurt? What am I hoping the officers will do differently because I am here? Do I believe yelling, blocking, or interfering causes better outcomes, or just faster escalation? If I believe enforcement is wrong, am I creating evidence and records, or am I creating chaos, and which one actually helps courts, oversight, and accountability? If I care about people being arrested, have I supported legal aid, court navigation, or lawful advocacy? Have I spent time understanding the legal process I am trying to disrupt, or am I performing concern in public?

If I were writing the law myself, what would it actually say? How would it handle violent offenders, repeat offenders, and due process? What resources would it require, where would that money come from, and what unintended consequences would it create? Do I believe laws stop applying when enough people disagree with them, and if that were true, which laws would still exist tomorrow? Would I want that standard applied to issues I care about less? Have I ever called 911? Do I expect law enforcement to exist when I need help, and if so, how do I reconcile that with believing all enforcement is illegitimate? If I am not a citizen, do I believe street chaos improves my legal outcome, or would calm legal counsel and verified support help more than confrontation?

Am I here to save lives, or to feel righteous? If someone is injured today, will I still believe this was worth it? If nothing changes at all, will I admit this accomplished nothing? Am I thinking, or am I reacting? Am I acting out of principle, or out of anger? If I walk away, does that make me weak, or does it make me rational? What happens after today, after the crowd leaves, after the cameras are gone? What does my future look like if this escalates instead of resolves? Is common sense cowardice, or is it how people go home alive?

These questions are not meant to shame, silence, or score points. They exist to interrupt reflex and replace it with thought. Before stepping into the street, before escalating a moment that cannot be taken back, before assuming righteousness guarantees safety, it is worth sitting with these questions honestly. Not to prove anything to others, but to be clear with ourselves. Lives are not improved by confusion, noise, or impulse. They are improved by clarity, responsibility, and choices that reduce harm rather than multiply it. If thinking carefully keeps even one person from getting hurt, then asking the questions matters.

I don't believe it was necessary to have shot and killed Alex Pretti. I also don't believe it was necessary for him to show up as an armed protestor. I also wasn't at the scene and don't know the exact circumstances that led to his death. Neither was anyone else on this message board.
What was it @CowboyJD said comply or die. That's all you said with that crap.
 
I don't believe it was necessary to have shot and killed Alex Pretti. I also don't believe it was necessary for him to show up as an armed protestor. I also wasn't at the scene and don't know the exact circumstances that led to his death. Neither was anyone else on this message board.
I did read this paragraph though. Why would it matter if you think it was “necessary” for Pretti to show up as a protestor? Did you think it was “necessary” for anyone to show up to the Capitol on Jan 6 with tactical gear and gallows for the VP and Democrats?
 
I did read this paragraph though. Why would it matter if you think it was “necessary” for Pretti to show up as a protestor? Did you think it was “necessary” for anyone to show up to the Capitol on Jan 6 with tactical gear and gallows for the VP and Democrats?
Did you ignore the word "armed" on purpose?

The part you chose not to read clearly explained that I don't think any of Jan 6 was necessary either. But, as usual, throw out a whataboutism without reading what I typed.
 
I don't believe it was necessary to have shot and killed Alex Pretti. I also don't believe it was necessary for him to show up as an armed protestor. I also wasn't at the scene and don't know the exact circumstances that led to his death. Neither was anyone else on this message board.
Unlike Ashli Babbitt, Renee Good was denied a DOJ civil rights division or FBI investigation into her killing to formally review to insure it was justified. It appears, based on the administration's actions thus far, Alex Pretti will also be denied this basic civil right.

Given that you don't believe it was necessary for them to kill him, will you join me in writing to our representatives demanding accountability in our government, like Ms. Babbitt received? The government is the side of the equation that is supposed to do what is necessary. As a citizen, Mr. Pretti was under no obligation to avoid protesting to prevent his own unnecessary killing by the government. A letter from you, a Trump voter, would hold far more weight.
 
While extremely hypocritical and insanely ironic, I’m viewing this as the closest thing we’ll see from you to a mia culpa.

I will say that you arguing semantics—yes, literally the definition of that phrase—and then gaslighting folks in the midst of this situation pissed me off more than anything I’ve read in a long while.

Like I said before, I like you and—similar to Rob—appreciate you both sharing a differing perspective here. I don’t believe I’ve ever called you out like this. But this one pressed my buttons.

Look… I don’t care if you or anyone here like or dislike me. I have no clue who you are and probably never will. We don’t need to be friends, but we can be cordial here. So, with that said, I admit my OP was tone deaf. I’m sorry it rubbed y’all the wrong way and I honestly mean that.

There’s no gaslighting here, man. So, if you want to continue to be pissed off, that’s your choice. I just want you and anyone else that is pissed off to know, that my post was tone deaf and I’m sorry.

I’m not on the side of what ICE was doing, so remember that too please.
 
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you lost me here...you are the king of personal attacks...however I did skim through it and you clearly have no understanding of how and/or why people protest...
serious question: did you have AI write it, or at least help with writing it? (only honest answers) ha...
Please show me one instance where I personally attacked someone without provocation. Show me where I've said vile things about someone's spouse that was completely out of context with the argument. That's you and Vaginarian's game chief, not mine.
I don't need to use AI to express my thoughts but that statement is another example of ignoring the content to throw personal insults. 👏
 
Line might be pretty damn busy
It will go to voicemail in that case, or if it is not 8 to 5 Monday through Friday. A responsible rep will still have a staffer follow up with you.

An important senate vote is coming up in the next week or so for the budget. Telling your senators to vote no, not a dime for ICE would be probably the two best calls one can make right now.
 
Look… I don’t care if you or anyone here like or dislike me. I have no clue who you are and probably never will. We don’t need to be friends, but we can be cordial here. So, with that said, I admit my OP was tone deaf. I’m sorry it rubbed y’all the wrong way and I honestly mean that.

There’s no gaslighting here, man. So, if you want to continue to be pissed off, that’s your choice. I just want you and anyone else that is pissed off know, that’s my post was tone deaf and I’m sorry.

I’m not on the side of what ICE was doing, so remember that too please.
We're wasting our time with these clowns. They scream things like "comply or die" but if you don't fall in line with the way they think you're an idiot for not complying with them. They call me out to ask my opinion then form the circle to hurl insults because my opinion doesn't comply with the circle.
Then they have the audacity to think I care what they think of me.
Playground tactics at it's worst.
 
We're wasting our time with these clowns. They scream things like "comply or die" but if you don't fall in line with the way they think you're an idiot for not complying with them. They call me out to ask my opinion then form the circle to hurl insults because my opinion doesn't comply with the circle.
Then they have the audacity to think I care what they think of me.
Playground tactics at it's worst.

bOoT LiCkEr !!!
 
Please show me one instance where I personally attacked someone without provocation. Show me where I've said vile things about someone's spouse that was completely out of context with the argument. That's you and Vaginarian's game chief, not mine.
I don't need to use AI to express my thoughts but that statement is another example of ignoring the content to throw personal insults. 👏
you have called me names just because I disagreed with you...everyone knows how you are on here, so you can't play the victim here...I simply asked if you used AI, simple question...if you didn't, you have AI in your veins, cuz AI detectors online show most and/or all is AI generated...now I'm sure they align with your thoughts/opinions, and there's no harm in using AI, you won't receive 'no credit'...ha

*F*&K ICE!
 
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