How it started...How it's going thread

[CowboyJD]

He had people in his cabinet and multiple chiefs of staff who were able to keep his worst urges at bay. For all of the hate people like Bill Barr and John Kelley got for working with him the really did alot to keep his administration between the ditches. He didn't like being told things like "you can't do that" or "that's illegal" though so none of those people are around this time around.

Yes but he still was showing what he wanted to do.

I would say he hasn’t changed a bit between the two admins (other than becoming more senile) It’s all about the people he keeps around him that are the difference at this point.

Essentially Steven Miller won the battle of Oval Office influencers duringTrump’s first term and we’re seeing the result.

The sniveling Weasel that is Miller somehow won the battle against the likes of Kelly, Barr, Mattis, et. al.

There are no longer any moderating forces more loyal to the law and the Constitution than they are to Trump.

And here we are.

 

[osuwhit]

Not really. He lied multiple times a day. He had the bible moment. He treatened citizens. It just wasn't to the same level but they were doing very similar stuff. You and all the others decided to not believe your eyes.

LOL okay.. I don't even now where to start with this goofy BS, but I'll keep it simple for you.

You're not in a position to tell me what I did and didn't believe with my own eyes during Trump's first term and you never will be. I didn't vote for him in 2016, but I didn't think his first term was a complete 180 sh!t show from the promises he made then compared to now. So, he earned my future vote after his first term. I'm man enough and humble enough to admit I was duped. If I had to do it all over again, I'd choose not to vote.

If we get Trump MAGAs on the next ballot vs another mainstream Democrat virtue turd, then I'll sit out the presidential election like I used to until we finally had a third option on the ballot.

 

[Stillwater Townie]

I have never once voted for Trump or Biden. Voted for Bernie in the primary. It Bernie was elected rather than Biden, it would have been a far more interesting and less boring period in American history.

 

[RxCowboy]

And that ended really well.

It ended. This feels endless.

 

[Bowers3]

LOL okay.. I don't even now where to start with this goofy BS, but I'll keep it simple for you.

You're not in a position to tell me what I did and didn't believe with my own eyes during Trump's first term and you never will be. I didn't vote for him in 2016, but I didn't think his first term was a complete 180 sh!t show from the promises he made then compared to now. So, he earned my future vote after his first term. I'm man enough and humble enough to admit I was duped. If I had to do it all over again, I'd choose not to vote.

If we get Trump MAGAs on the next ballot vs another mainstream Democrat virtue turd, then I'll sit out the presidential election like I used to until we finally had a third option on the ballot.

There's been third and even fourth options on every ballot.

 

[GratefulPoke]

I have never once voted for Trump or Biden. Voted for Bernie in the primary. It Bernie was elected rather than Biden, it would have been a far more interesting and less boring period in American history.

We would have had at least some meaningful actions to help working people with Bernie. That being said, he needs to retire and not run for Senate again. We dont need someone who would be 91 at the end of his term.

But, the DNC likes their coronations and Elizabeth Warren split his vote.

 

[RxCowboy]

There's been third and even fourth options on every ballot.

I’ve voted Libertarian in the last two elections. I don’t think that Libertarians would be very good at governing. But I couldn’t vote for Trump and wouldn’t vote for Biden or Harris.

 

[CowboyJD]

There's been third and even fourth options on every ballot.

binary thinking and false dichotomies and such.

 

[steross]

LOL okay.. I don't even now where to start with this goofy BS, but I'll keep it simple for you.

You're not in a position to tell me what I did and didn't believe with my own eyes during Trump's first term and you never will be. I didn't vote for him in 2016, but I didn't think his first term was a complete 180 sh!t show from the promises he made then compared to now. So, he earned my future vote after his first term. I'm man enough and humble enough to admit I was duped. If I had to do it all over again, I'd choose not to vote.

If we get Trump MAGAs on the next ballot vs another mainstream Democrat virtue turd, then I'll sit out the presidential election like I used to until we finally had a third option on the ballot.

I'm not telling you what you did and didn't believe. I am telling you that having a look at his campaign would have shown you:
1. A convicted felon who has been found to constantly tell lies
2. A candidate who was showing cognitive decline because he is too old and was surrounding himself with loyalists not leaders
3. Most importantly, a candidate who was impeached for inciting insurrection against our nation

Under no circumstances would that person ever get my vote, even if the first term was close to nirvana.

I cannot understand how otherwise reasonable people even considered voting for him. Just shows that we will forever be at risk because people are more drawn to personality than to protecting our system of government, which is under attack.

I'm no fan of most of the democrats either. They are beholden to money and maintaining power in the system. But, they are not dismantling our republic. "Sitting it out" means as an American you are leaving it up to others to decide if we move further toward authoritarianism or stay a democratic republic. That is not being patriotic, IMHO.

 

[steross]

I’ve voted Libertarian in the last two elections. I don’t think that Libertarians would be very good at governing. But I couldn’t vote for Trump and wouldn’t vote for Biden or Harris.

Are you still happy with that choice?

 

[Vakarian74]

I’ve voted Libertarian in the last two elections. I don’t think that Libertarians would be very good at governing. But I couldn’t vote for Trump and wouldn’t vote for Biden or Harris.

I don't want to put words in your mouth but it sounds like you are saying you kinda wanted to vote for Trump(I know you would never voted for Trump you explicitly said that numerous times) but just couldn't vote for him. But with Biden/Harris there wasn't even a thought just no. If that's correct why would you not even consider the Biden/Harris side?

 

[osuwhit]

There's been third and even fourth options on every ballot.

Every? Dude, you vote in Oklahoma. So do I. 2016 was the first time we had a third party on the ballot in a long, long time.

 

[Bowers3]

Every? Dude, you vote in Oklahoma. So do I. 2016 was the first time we had a third party on the ballot in a long, long time.

And?

 

[Bowers3]

I guess I don't get your point @osuwhit

You said you'll sit out unless there are other options. And there have been....

 

[osuwhit]

And?

Ha.. And? I guess if you need me to repeat my point in a different way, you would be wrong if you're telling me there's been third and even fourth options on every ballot.

I think we're close to the same age. The first election I was eligible to vote in was 2004, Bush/Kerry. They were the only two candidates on the ballot. After that it was Obama/McCain in 2008, and Obama/Romney in 2012. It wasn't until 2016 that there was a third option. I went with Gary Johnson. There were a handful of candidates on the 2020 and 2024 ballot. One candidate was Kanye West.

 

[osuwhit]

I guess I don't get your point @osuwhit

You said you'll sit out unless there are other options. And there have been....

See above. I gave up voting for presidents in 2008 and 2012.

 

[osuwhit]

I'm trying to recall 2000 when it was Bush/Gore in the hanging chad, Florida recount debacle. I don't recall a third party, but I wasn't old enough to vote. Ross Perot was famous for running in 1992 and 1996. I'm sure he was on the Oklahoma ballot in those elections, but I was a kid.

 

[Bowers3]

I'm trying to recall 2000 when it was Bush/Gore in the hanging chad, Florida recount debacle. I don't recall a third party, but I wasn't old enough to vote. Ross Perot was famous for running in 1992 and 1996. I'm sure he was on the Oklahoma ballot in those elections, but I was a kid.

My first was 2008.

 

[steross]

I'm trying to recall 2000 when it was Bush/Gore in the hanging chad, Florida recount debacle. I don't recall a third party, but I wasn't old enough to vote. Ross Perot was famous for running in 1992 and 1996. I'm sure he was on the Oklahoma ballot in those elections, but I was a kid.

Previously, unless I really liked the candidate, I would vote third party because the hope of more choice in the future was more important to me than which of the major party candidates won. But I voted for Harris. Even though I was in Oklahoma and it did not matter, I did it to protest the idea of Trump and hoping to avoid what happened, him getting a majority.

I think our founding fathers would have put more safeguards in the Constitution if they could have seen what is happening today. A maximum age. No felonies. No impeachments.

I suspect they trusted the voter to weed out any candidate harmful to the system. They could not have foreseen the misinformation age. They could not have foreseen a candidate who admits he lies to people because they will believe it. He does, and they still believe it.

 

[steross]

My first was 2008.

Wait, what is the subject here?