Has an otherwise successful HC ever presided over the demise of a program to this degree?

Newpoke

Newpoke

New member
Just curious to hear some opinions, but I can't recall when an entrenched HC--who led a program to the success that Gundy led OSU--left a program so completely in shambles and disarray. Not even competitive. I know that Gundy is owed a debt of gratitude for what he did for OSU, but he also burned it down in the end and left us in as bad a position as we could possibly be in, given the changing CFB landscape.
 
Short of criminal behavior like Briles, Paterno and Switzer it’s unprecedented. You might look at Patrino at Arkansas and Freeze at Ole Miss for bad personal life choices. This may be the first hubris firing in the modern era and probably since Urban Meyer
 
If people in the know will talk, this will make a great documentary. It’s a cautionary tale of what happens when a football coach operates as if he’s bigger than the university. It’s why the athletic department should be called to the carpet in addition to Mike. For years Gundy was hiring assistants for all the wrong reasons, doing and saying things to harm the program, taking the easy way out in recruiting, and was doing so completely unchecked. I look back to the days of Holder/Boone butting heads with Mike and it always seemed like public sentiment was with Mike. And now I think clearly those guys had legitimate cause for concern.
 
ClintDagger said:
If people in the know will talk, this will make a great documentary. It’s a cautionary tale of what happens when a football coach operates as if he’s bigger than the university. It’s why the athletic department should be called to the carpet in addition to Mike. For years Gundy was hiring assistants for all the wrong reasons, doing and saying things to harm the program, taking the easy way out in recruiting, and was doing so completely unchecked. I look back to the days of Holder/Boone butting heads with Mike and it always seemed like public sentiment was with Mike. And now I think clearly those guys had legitimate cause for concern.
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Boone was able to keep Gundy in check because thats where the money was coming from. The death of Boone is when OSU started to slide downhill.
 
ClintDagger said:
If people in the know will talk, this will make a great documentary. It’s a cautionary tale of what happens when a football coach operates as if he’s bigger than the university. It’s why the athletic department should be called to the carpet in addition to Mike. For years Gundy was hiring assistants for all the wrong reasons, doing and saying things to harm the program, taking the easy way out in recruiting, and was doing so completely unchecked. I look back to the days of Holder/Boone butting heads with Mike and it always seemed like public sentiment was with Mike. And now I think clearly those guys had legitimate cause for concern.
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I agree with most of your hypotheses, but I also don't think there's a bunch of drama or intrigue that led to this point. I believe Gundy simply became entitled, complacent, and overconfident after his first run at success, and found a way to squeeze the most amount of money from the university for the least amount of effort. He knew he could rake in millions on a really long leash while also benefiting from really low fan expectations. Worked out great for him.
 
Backin82 said:
I agree with most of your hypotheses, but I also don't think there's a bunch of drama or intrigue that led to this point. I believe Gundy simply became entitled, complacent, and overconfident after his first run at success, and found a way to squeeze the most amount of money from the university for the least amount of effort. He knew he could rake in millions on a really long leash while also benefiting from really low fan expectations. Worked out great for him.
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Zero disagreement.

But why?

That’s the part I can’t reconcile. Genuinely trying to figure out why the f**k we’re here. Not how/what

But Why?
 
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Cowboyshoopspride said:
Zero disagreement.

But why?

That’s the part I can’t reconcile. Genuinely trying to figure out why the f**k we’re here. Not how/what

But Why?
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My opinion isn't welcomed here on this topic, but I believe firmly it's because he cared way, way more about Gundy than he did about OSU. Look at all the times he interviewed at other universities to leverage for more money from OSU (then whining that he didn't have the money to pay his assistants, then finding creative ways to do even LESS work while paying those assistants even less). Look at how often he mocked and bedowngraded his own fans. He was not a "loyal and true" OSU alum. He just found a way to maximize his bank account while minimizing his work. It's a simple concept, and most reject the theory, but I just think he was literally that greedy and selfish.
 
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Backin82 said:
My opinion isn't welcomed here on this topic, but I believe firmly it's because he cared way, way more about Gundy than he did about OSU. Look at all the times he interviewed at other universities to leverage for more money from OSU (then whining that he didn't have the money to pay his assistants, then finding creative ways to do even LESS work while paying those assistants even less). Look at how often he mocked and bedowngraded his own fans. He was not a "loyal and true" OSU alum. He just found a way to maximize his bank account while minimizing his work. It's a simple concept, and most reject the theory, but I just think he was literally that greedy and selfish.
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Ok, birry
 
Backin82 said:
My opinion isn't welcomed here on this topic, but I believe firmly it's because he cared way, way more about Gundy than he did about OSU. Look at all the times he interviewed at other universities to leverage for more money from OSU (then whining that he didn't have the money to pay his assistants, then finding creative ways to do even LESS work while paying those assistants even less). Look at how often he mocked and bedowngraded his own fans. He was not a "loyal and true" OSU alum. He just found a way to maximize his bank account while minimizing his work. It's a simple concept, and most reject the theory, but I just think he was literally that greedy and selfish.
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This is dumb. If he cared more about Gundy then we would have been on probation twice. First when miles left, second when NIL started.
 
Cowboyshoopspride said:
That’s the part I can’t reconcile. Genuinely trying to figure out why the f**k we’re here. Not how/what

But Why?
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My thoughts and opinions on why we got here ...
1. Gundy got lazy.
  • I believe he started this work/life balance philosophy to to spend time with family, watching his boys play sports. To justify him only working 12 hours a day when other coaches around the country were working 16 hour days, he extended that philosophy to his assistant coaches.
  • Gundy hired unproven coordinators and coaches in hopes that turnover would be less. It was too much work to teach and train his philosophy, terminology, etc. to new coaches.
2. Gundy had a system and approach that no longer worked with NIL.
  • He didn't believe NIL was good for college football, didn't embrace it, and was slow to adopt and use it.
  • Gundy's approach to find 3-star guys and develop them (hence why he placed so much value in Body by Glass) no longer works for the most part because players are shopping for the next highest bidder each year.
3. Gundy's "culture" isn't what he made it out to be.
  • I don't believe Gundy engaged with many players and got to know them personally. Maybe that's why he often referred to players by number instead of by name. If the culture was so good then why don't we see former players, especially our NFL guys, engaged in the program or even come back very often to games. I envy what OU has in this regard, and it helps with their fund raising and recruiting.
I feel like Gundy wanted to be paid "his worth" based on what other coaches were making with similar success. I don't buy into the theory that he was simply trying to fleece the university for the most money he could get. For some it might be a little bit hard to separate those two.
 
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OKPokeU said:
My thoughts and opinions on why we got here ...
1. Gundy got lazy.
  • I believe he started this work/life balance philosophy to to spend time with family, watching his boys play sports. To justify him only working 12 hours a day when other coaches around the country were working 16 hour days, he extended that philosophy to his assistant coaches.
  • Gundy hired unproven coordinators and coaches in hopes that turnover would be less. It was too much work to teach and train his philosophy, terminology, etc. to new coaches.
2. Gundy had a system and approach that no longer worked with NIL.
  • He didn't believe NIL was good for college football, didn't embrace it, and was slow to adopt and use it.
  • Gundy's approach to find 3-star guys and develop them (hence why he placed so much value in Body by Glass) no longer works for the most part because players are shopping for the next highest bidder each year.
3. Gundy's "culture" isn't what he made it out to be.
  • I don't believe Gundy engaged with many players and got to know them personally. Maybe that's why he often referred to players by number instead of by name. If the culture was so good then why don't we see former players, especially our NFL guys, engaged in the program or even come back very often to games. I envy what OU has in this regard, and it helps with their fund raising and recruiting.
I feel like Gundy wanted to be paid "his worth" based on what other coaches were making with similar success. I don't buy into the theory that he was simply trying to fleece the university for the most money he could get. For some it might be a little bit hard to separate those two.
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What's crazy is guys like Dez Bryant still clearly bleed orange and talk favorably about their time in Stillwater but they never seem to be around except for special events like reunions.
 
Okstatekerr said:
What's crazy is guys like Dez Bryant still clearly bleed orange and talk favorably about their time in Stillwater but they never seem to be around except for special events like reunions.
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Lot of guys came out in support of him on Twitter when he was fired. I don’t buy for one second that the locker room was as dysfunctional as one or two players tried to assert circa 2020.
 
Okstatekerr said:
What's crazy is guys like Dez Bryant still clearly bleed orange and talk favorably about their time in Stillwater but they never seem to be around except for special events like reunions.
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It takes personal time, maybe a lot of time, to write a personal note to a former player when they have a birth or kid graduating, to pick up the phone and have a 5 minute conversation to check in with a former player, to make a big deal and give time to players showing up on campus. Trust me, Switzer did those things. I don't have any idea if Gundy did but I suspect not much. Those guys show up a lot more often if you do those things. For as great as Gundy was for marketing himself (which also gave OSU publicity) it baffles me that he possibly didn't understand the impact that having our greats back on campus would do to energize the fanbase, improve recruiting and fundraising.
 
Newpoke said:
Just curious to hear some opinions, but I can't recall when an entrenched HC--who led a program to the success that Gundy led OSU--left a program so completely in shambles and disarray. Not even competitive. I know that Gundy is owed a debt of gratitude for what he did for OSU, but he also burned it down in the end and left us in as bad a position as we could possibly be in, given the changing CFB landscape.
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Curious George Logo GIF by Kev Lavery


Has there ever been a rule change as unprecedented at the new NIL? But just recently - Florida State.
 
OKPokeU said:
It takes personal time, maybe a lot of time, to write a personal note to a former player when they have a birth or kid graduating, to pick up the phone and have a 5 minute conversation to check in with a former player, to make a big deal and give time to players showing up on campus. Trust me, Switzer did those things. I don't have any idea if Gundy did but I suspect not much. Those guys show up a lot more often if you do those things. For as great as Gundy was for marketing himself (which also gave OSU publicity) it baffles me that he possibly didn't understand the impact that having our greats back on campus would do to energize the fanbase, improve recruiting and fundraising.
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Every former player received free admission for him and his family going back at least the past five years! I would go into the stadium with Kye Staley, former full back from Guthrie, the last couple of years and he always entered thru the family and recruits entrance with his wife and kid!
 
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