assault weapons

[PF5]

is now a good time to talk about banning assault weapons, like the AR-15 used to shoot at trump?!

Trump was nearly killed with an AR-style rifle he resisted calls to ban: Will it restart the gun debate in America? the independent

...
“Time and time again our communities are shaken by acts of gun violence that have invaded what should be our safe places, and that includes the violence that we saw,” according to Angela Ferrell-Zabala, executive director of gun reform group Moms Demand Action.

“But they are a consequence of our country’s weak gun laws and guns everywhere culture — laws that allow hate to be armed with a gun to easily take someone else’s life,” she added.
...
About one in 20 US adults — roughly 16 million Americans — own at least one AR-15-style rifle, according to polling from Ipsos and The Washington Post.
...
AR-15-style rifles accounted for 1.2 percent of all manufactured American firearms in 1990.

Thirty years later, the weapon made up 23.4 per cent, according to The Washington Post, which estimates there are at least 20 million AR-15s “stored and stashed” across the US.
...
The Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, which imposed the so-called assault weapons ban, was enacted in 1994.

But the law expired in 2004, and Congress has repeatedly decided not to renew it.
...

 

[Osufenceman]

not really. They are no more lethal than any other rifle of similar caliber.

 

[Pokey]

Don’t you think the large capacity magazines make a distinct difference?

 

[Rob B.]

Don’t you think the large capacity magazines make a distinct difference?

Not when sniping from a relatively close distance.

 

[Polds4OSU]

Don’t you think the large capacity magazines make a distinct difference?

I've never understood the argument that you need more than 5 rounds ready to go at any one point when hunting ... You fire 5 and hadn't hit your prey yet....you need to rethink hunting

It's like owning a car that can go 200mph..what's the point ?

But those advocating for 20-30-100 round mags .they are interested not in hunting but for defense....from a fully armed govt military

Both seem like moot points to me..but to each their own I suppose

 

[Pokey]

Not when sniping from a relatively close distance.

I disagree. Follow up shots come much quicker. One other point about our domestic weapons. In war the Geneva Convention only allows ball ammunition. My hunting rounds are considerably more deadly than ball ammo. Combine the two and you’ve got an extremely deadly weapon. IMO

 

[Osufenceman]

Don’t you think the large capacity magazines make a distinct difference?

Didn’t factor in this. An AR is a poor choice for sniping

 

[Pokey]

Didn’t factor in this. An AR is a poor choice for sniping

Sounded like he fired several times in close succession . One fatal shot, two severely wounded, one to damned close graze. My 30-06 7400 doesn’t have anywhere near the cycle rate. IMO

 

[steross]

I say no. There is a certain large segment of our country that is more attached to these guns than they are to about anything else. I think we maybe try to find more that we can come together on rather than find more things to fight about at the moment.

That said, I think the "other guns can do the same job" argument doesn't work. There is a reason that these shooters choose these guns over and over and it isn't capability. It is the same reason that people wear a Rolex when a $20 Casio can keep time equally as well and has other features. These weapons fit well with the delusional desires and persona of these killers. Which fits with the limited data from the brief time that the assault weapon ban was in place that it had a minimal (not statistically significant) effect on the homicide rate overall but did likely decrease the mass shooting rate.

 

[Stillwater Townie]

No. Not after next to nothing was done after the worst mass shooting massacre ever at Las Vegas. What little was done was overruled by the Supreme Court.

 

[pokefan_4]

People kill people... there is a mental health crisis in our country nobody is talking about. A gun doesn't wake up and decide to shoot someone. We have a mental health issue, not a gun issue. And the problem is that nobody is talking about it, but instead, blaming a gun

 

[steross]

I guess we should check with the other countries that also have mental health crisis and figure out how they are stopping their mentally ill people from killing others with guns (or without) at the rate we have.

How to solve the UK’s crisis of young people with poor mental health

The worrying prevalence of young people with poor mental health, why it’s on the rise, and what can be done to prevent mental ill health

www.openaccessgovernment.org

On Background: Is Australia's Mental Health Crisis Getting Worse? - ABC listen

We’ve long heard about the mental health crisis in Australia, but are things improving or getting worse?

www.abc.net.au

 

[GratefulPoke]

I guess we should check with the other countries that also have mental health crisis and figure out how they are stopping their mentally ill people from killing others with guns (or without) at the rate we have.

How to solve the UK’s crisis of young people with poor mental health

The worrying prevalence of young people with poor mental health, why it’s on the rise, and what can be done to prevent mental ill health

www.openaccessgovernment.org

On Background: Is Australia's Mental Health Crisis Getting Worse? - ABC listen

We’ve long heard about the mental health crisis in Australia, but are things improving or getting worse?

www.abc.net.au

Both of those countries have universal healthcare. That may play a larger role than anticipated also.

Free and easily accessible mental healthcare really isn't a thing in the US.

 

[steross]

Both of those countries have universal healthcare. That may play a larger role than anticipated also.

Free and easily accessible mental healthcare really isn't a thing in the US.

MH is a component, but it isn't the primary cause or the solution.

From the article I linked regarding the NHS:

Underfunded services​

CYPMHS services have historically been underfunded. The NHS Long Term Plan (2019) promised to increase funding by £2.3bn a year to allow an extra 345,000 children to be seen and a minimum four-week wait.

However, 2024 data show that only 48% of children on the 1.4 million waiting list have had one contact with a health professional. The average waiting time is 170 days, and some have waited over two years!


And from the APA regarding MH's role in gun violence:

Mental illness alone does not predict gun violence. Studies show that mental illness accounts for only a small percentage of gun violence, and that people with serious mental illness are much more likely to be victims than perpetrators of such attacks.

.......
As just one example, a statement on mass shootings by 2019 APA President Rosie Phillips Davis, PhD, ABPP, was cited by more than 300 news outlets. In August, she appeared on CNN to discuss the need to stop inaccurately blaming the nation’s gun violence crisis on mental illness—and to conduct more research into the more significant factors behind mass shootings, including fear, bigotry and social division.

“Saying that mental illness causes mass shootings is a simplistic argument, and it’s inaccurate,” she said. “We must focus on the full range of factors that contribute to mass shootings … such as bigotry and hatred.”

Raising our voices on gun violence

A comprehensive public health approach to address gun violence crisis.

www.apa.org

If someone believes that a MH crisis is the primary issue, they are going to have to convince the people who do MH for a living as that isn't what they believe.

 

[Vakarian74]

MH is a component, but it isn't the primary cause or the solution.

From the article I linked regarding the NHS:

Underfunded services​

CYPMHS services have historically been underfunded. The NHS Long Term Plan (2019) promised to increase funding by £2.3bn a year to allow an extra 345,000 children to be seen and a minimum four-week wait.

However, 2024 data show that only 48% of children on the 1.4 million waiting list have had one contact with a health professional. The average waiting time is 170 days, and some have waited over two years!


And from the APA regarding MH's role in gun violence:

Mental illness alone does not predict gun violence. Studies show that mental illness accounts for only a small percentage of gun violence, and that people with serious mental illness are much more likely to be victims than perpetrators of such attacks.

.......
As just one example, a statement on mass shootings by 2019 APA President Rosie Phillips Davis, PhD, ABPP, was cited by more than 300 news outlets. In August, she appeared on CNN to discuss the need to stop inaccurately blaming the nation’s gun violence crisis on mental illness—and to conduct more research into the more significant factors behind mass shootings, including fear, bigotry and social division.

“Saying that mental illness causes mass shootings is a simplistic argument, and it’s inaccurate,” she said. “We must focus on the full range of factors that contribute to mass shootings … such as bigotry and hatred.”

Raising our voices on gun violence

A comprehensive public health approach to address gun violence crisis.

www.apa.org

If someone believes that a MH crisis is the primary issue, they are going to have to convince the people who do MH for a living as that isn't what they believe.

But why believe the experts?

 

[Stillwater Townie]

MH is a component, but it isn't the primary cause or the solution.

From the article I linked regarding the NHS:

Underfunded services​

CYPMHS services have historically been underfunded. The NHS Long Term Plan (2019) promised to increase funding by £2.3bn a year to allow an extra 345,000 children to be seen and a minimum four-week wait.

However, 2024 data show that only 48% of children on the 1.4 million waiting list have had one contact with a health professional. The average waiting time is 170 days, and some have waited over two years!


And from the APA regarding MH's role in gun violence:

Mental illness alone does not predict gun violence. Studies show that mental illness accounts for only a small percentage of gun violence, and that people with serious mental illness are much more likely to be victims than perpetrators of such attacks.

.......
As just one example, a statement on mass shootings by 2019 APA President Rosie Phillips Davis, PhD, ABPP, was cited by more than 300 news outlets. In August, she appeared on CNN to discuss the need to stop inaccurately blaming the nation’s gun violence crisis on mental illness—and to conduct more research into the more significant factors behind mass shootings, including fear, bigotry and social division.

“Saying that mental illness causes mass shootings is a simplistic argument, and it’s inaccurate,” she said. “We must focus on the full range of factors that contribute to mass shootings … such as bigotry and hatred.”

Raising our voices on gun violence

A comprehensive public health approach to address gun violence crisis.

www.apa.org

If someone believes that a MH crisis is the primary issue, they are going to have to convince the people who do MH for a living as that isn't what they believe.

Someone being so consumed by fear and bigotry that he wants to shoot people still sounds like mental illness to me, though some people might call it as just being evil and that there is a difference.

 

[Coco Cincinnati]

I imagine some of the loudest talking heads in this debate might not have too much of a problem with what happened on Saturday so wouldn't expect them to start that debate up as a result of it. Plus, it's an election year and Dems seem hesitant to let major elections hang on this topic. This seems to be one of the few issues where Republicans actually follow through with what they promise.

The crazy thing is that back when Trump was a Democrat, he was fairly vocal about supporting a scary looking semi-automatic rifle ban but once he switched to Republican he is of course now against a scary looking semi-automatic rifle ban. One of my biggest fears is that he actually believes the former....who really knows what he might support in office when he no longer needs Republican votes.